Jazz

Politics

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Since we no longer have a Sub or a Wolph I feel it's time to step up and do politics!  So here we go...

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Them politics huh?

 

Anyway, let's start with the easy one: Donald Trump.  So, it looks like he's gonna be the Republican candidate.  What do you guys think of this?  Personally, I like it, should he become President so that the rest of the world can grab some popcorn and watch the US implode.  Maybe send some Peacekeeping forces over there.  Watch Russia and China carve up what's left afterwards.  Good times.

 

Meanwhile, over here: apparently there's gonna be a referendum on whether we should stay or leave the EU.  Boris Johnson has apparently sided with the Leave campaign, which is big news apparently or at least the media is telling us it's big news.  Personally I think it would be a terrible idea, yes I know I have previously been anti-Euro, but I changed my mind, I flip-flopped and gone to the other side, you can thank Pas for that.  I can see us going all Trumpy and being carved up by the EU after we implode too.  As a friend put it, we should be "balls deep in", half of the problems we have with the EU is because we keep one foot out, we should go all in with the French and Germans so that we can actually gain some influence and control over it and form the New British Empire!  Under my rule, a new reign of tyranny could then begin, as the peoples of Europe are fed into my war machine of terror as I unleash it upon the world!  Bwa hahahahahahahahahahahahah!

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Since we no longer have a Sub or a Wolph I feel it's time to step up and do politics!  So here we go...

...

...

Them politics huh?

 

 you can thank Pas for that. 

 

Wait. What?

 

Can't recall every having an opinion on dah EU'z.

 

If anything, i'm probably for staying out. I don't think the EU has thought through any of the stuff that's been going on and is not capable of leading itself

  • For the last few year, the EU has just been a goldmine for shit leaders to abuse their countries and get those with the money to continuously bail them out, making us poorer in the meantime.
  • We open up our borders to people from countries that are far poorer, have far worse welfare systems, get paid far less. And then we go all "WTF is happening" when they start arriving here.

 

Creating the EU was like giving a fuck-off weapon to a child, who has no clue how to use it, and then bitching when it starts shooting up the place, creating havoc.

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Yeah, it wasn't a case of you arguing for it, just when during one of the old Sub arguments we had I mentioned that I didn't like the EU and found it completely undemocratic, you pointed out that the House of Lords was even more undemocratic and worse, which got me re-thinking my ideas.  Goes to show how a single innocuous comment can have more of an impact than huge political debates.

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IMO ...

 

UK's decision to stay out of the Euro has worked out very well.  If you go all in, that would include ditching the Pound, which I think would be a huge mistake.  I still think the Euro will implode at some point.

 

As far as Trump ... he is the anti-establishment candidate.  He does not get favorable treatment in the media, so I'm not surprised by your impression of him.  The US will implode for different reasons.  Staggering debt, medical costs, unchecked immigration, too many unproductive citizens.  I think Benjamin Franklin said it best ... “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

 

All of the candidates suck.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.  If you think Clinton will be some great leader, you are mistaken.  If you think Obama is the best, you are mistaken.  If you think Rubio, Cruz, <insert any candidate here> are some great leader, you are mistaken.  All of them suck.  If you think political party A is better than party B, you are mistaken.

 

And if you think ...

 

 that the rest of the world can grab some popcorn and watch the US implode.

 

you are mistaken.  We're all in this together.  We cannot succeed without a healthy China.  The EU cannot succeed without a healthy US.  China cannot succeed without a healthy EU.  We are all interconnected.  When one piece falls, we all fall.

 

My take on politics is simple.  None of them view themselves as public servants.  None of them are working to do what is best for the country.  They treat the populace with disdain and think they know best.  They do what is best for themselves, their special interests, and their political party.  My votes usually come down to who can do the less damage.

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Trump being so close to the nomination is a reflection of the celebrity worship society we live in here in the U.S.  Maybe in 4 years Kris Jenner will run for President and Kim Kardashian will be her VP.  They would win in a landslide. 

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Politics is a great way to turn friends into enemies :)

 

As a Canadian, I do follow US politics and enjoy the entertainment it provides.

 

1. The #1 problem in US politics is money and corruption. Until $ is out of politics, and the Citizens United is reverse, it barely matters who wins. wolf-pac.com

 

2. If the US wants to reverse the great damage that has been done, Bernie Sanders is the only legitimate choice. It isn't even close. Sadly, most people equate "SOCIALISM" as a bad word, nevermind that Bernie isn't a true Socialist AND that many Americans already benefit from Socialist policies (Medicare, etc)

 

3. I want a Trump candidacy for the pure entertainment. Truly, he's less dangerous than Ted Cruz.

 

4. Shillary is one of the fakest candidates I've ever seen, and she really is the Focus Group Candidate. If she wins the Dem nomination, and her corrupt party is doing their best to make it happen, I hope Trump wins. Shillary is a corporatist war-hawk who is a Republican is Democratic clothing.

 

5. If I were in the EU, I'd want out. Germany and other successful countries have to keep propping up the mistakes of Portugal, Greece, and so on. The open borders have made it too easy for economic migrants to take advantage of soft policies (GERMANY!), and we saw in Koln/Cologne how well that turned out.

 

Overall, I am a weird split of right/left... I am very right-wing on Immigration, but leftist on most every other policy.

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Only 13 minutes?

 

"I have been consistent over my entire life" HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Now, people changing their opinions and views over their life is not a bad thing. People evolve, and their life experiences shape their views, so I don't think certain things are flip-flopping. I can believe that she couldn't support gay marriage until a later date, but she doesn't even admit to that.

 

That said, Hillary does EVERYTHING for political reasons, and has changed her views constantly to match the focus groups and the views of society. When she basically said "I'll give you my view on the pipelines when you vote for me" tells you all you need to know about her.

 

Any Democrat should watch this video and #feelthebern

(and this Benghazi BS is just BS... a non-story).

and Gowdy must be one of the dumbest politicians in US history, and that is saying something.

"I went to Wall Street and said 'Cut it out'" - Ooooh, that'll teach em!

(this video is much fun, thanks)

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I'm with you on Bernie being the only viable candidate, even though I think most of his ideas are just good ideas and getting there would be almost impossible.  He would get too much push back to get most of his ideas passed.  For Bernie to have a chance he will have to do very well in South Carolina where he's way behind in the polls and that probably isn't going to happen.  

 

But it looks like it will be Trump and Clinton as the two candidates.  I think it's interesting that the Republicans are nominating Trump, who everyone says they love because he's an outsider while the Democrats are nominating Clinton who is the exact opposite of an outsider.  

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:angry:Clinton pisses me off because she is so damn phony. Her policies (obviously rightwing, even for the US) are poor, but the fact she just molds her current campaign and views and seems to have no real core principles, is what drive me batty. :angry: :angry:  Does anybody, outside of her family, really know her that well? I don't need a politician to be 'my friend', but I do want to at least know what they really stand for.

 

The problem with Trump is that he will turn off a lot of Moderate republican voters, and Hilary/Sanders will trounce him easily. Of course, a Demoncrat government will always be better than a Republican gov't, but a Hilary gov't won't change anything about the current corrupt system. Really, she says she wants to keep everything pretty much the same.

 

If only more people in the US researched politics and spent less time on Kim Kardashian's ass :rolleyes:

 

Then again, this is what provides us with so much entertainment.

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 a Demoncrat government will always be better than a Republican gov't,

 

I strongly disagree with that.  However, I guess that depends on your definition of what a well run government is.

 

Sanders is the best candidate?  That actually made me laugh out loud.  He is a complete loser in every sense of the word. 

 

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bernie-sanders-the-bum-who-wants-your-money/

 

 

His family managed to send him to the University of Chicago. Despite a prestigious degree, however, Sanders failed to earn a living, even as an adult. It took him 40 years to collect his first steady paycheck — and it was a government check.

“I never had any money my entire life,” Sanders told Vermont public TV in 1985, after settling into his first real job as mayor of Burlington.

Sanders spent most of his life as an angry radical and agitator who never accomplished much of anything. And yet now he thinks he deserves the power to run your life and your finances — “We will raise taxes;” he confirmed Monday, “yes, we will.”

One of his first jobs was registering people for food stamps, and it was all downhill from there.

Sanders took his first bride to live in a maple sugar shack with a dirt floor, and she soon left him. Penniless, he went on unemployment. Then he had a child out of wedlock. Desperate, he tried carpentry but could barely sink a nail. “He was a shi**y carpenter,” a friend told Politico Magazine. “His carpentry was not going to support him, and didn’t.”

Then he tried his hand freelancing for leftist rags, writing about “masturbation and rape” and other crudities for $50 a story. He drove around in a rusted-out, Bondo-covered VW bug with no working windshield wipers. Friends said he was “always poor” and his “electricity was turned off a lot.” They described him as a slob who kept a messy apartment — and this is what his friends had to say about him.

The only thing he was good at was talking … non-stop … about socialism and how the rich were ripping everybody off. “The whole quality of life in America is based on greed,” the bitter layabout said. “I believe in the redistribution of wealth in this nation.”

 

I'm not thrilled with Trump, but you can at least say he has accomplished something.

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Regarding Trump: I dunno how it is in the US, but over here the Media doesn't hate him, they faux-hate him.  They present him as the scrappy fun underdog fighting against the establishment in a similar vein to what they did with Nigel Farage, who got lots of media-time despite his policies actually not being against the establishment at all but rather for it while not even mentioning the real underdogs and anti-establishment characters.  Trump actually gets lots of publicity and his policies would screw over the average American.  He's the Nigel Farage of the US, or the Boris Johnson (and fuck me would a conversation between Boris and Trump be hilarious).  And the US failing would not cause the whole world to fail, there would be increased chaos for a time but powers have come and gone throughout history, just look what happened to the British Empire. 

 

Regarding EU:  all in does not mean adopting the euro, it means taking a leadership position in the EU and being proactive, not reactionary.  They tried to force monetary union in the belief it would force political unity, but it is now obvious that monetary union actually requires political unity.  There are many things wrong with the EU, but instead of using the problems as an excuse to bail out we should be looking at what we need to do to fix them.  Half the problems are due to half-measures: open borders without a unified immigration policy, single currency without a unified economy, right to access welfare benefits in all member states but no unified welfare system.  In short, it's clear what the problem is: the EU member states are trying to have their cake and eat it.  They want to be united while still being independent.  We need to decide: are we all in?  If yes then we need to become the United States of Europe with a Federal government etc.  If no, then let's quit pretending that we do and all dump this thing.  The slow unification was fine at the beginning, but now they seem to be stuck at half-measures and need to just go ahead with it.  Go balls deep or go home because the extended foreplay is just leading to frustration now.

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A hit piece from a corporatist website? Colour me shocked. You do realize that the period of his life you are talking about is well over 35 years ago, right?

Trump's accomplishments are measured in fame, rather than money. He inherited everything from his father, and had the cushiest of jump starts. There was a study done that showed that somebody who started with what he had would do even better with just moderate investments.

In Canada, Trump is seen as the buffoon that he is. He's a reality-show host that somehow had a publicity campaign turn into an actual campaign. I wonder if Trump even figured that this would go on as long as he had.


 

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I strongly disagree with that.  However, I guess that depends on your definition of what a well run government is.

 

Sanders is the best candidate?  That actually made me laugh out loud.  He is a complete loser in every sense of the word. 

 

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bernie-sanders-the-bum-who-wants-your-money/

 

 

I'm not thrilled with Trump, but you can at least say he has accomplished something.

 

Yikes, between Trump and Sanders I'll go for Sanders every day of the week.  The only other candidate I'm not afraid of is Rubio.  I wouldn't vote for him, but he's the lesser of all evils on the right.

 

And JesGolbez, I know you are new but we often have political arguments and nobody gets upset.  We've had some doozies over the years so don't think it's like most internet forums here :)

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To be honest, I'm not a great debater and I always have to reign in my emotions when discussing controversial topics :P

 

I need to learn to distance myself from certain topics, although the stupidity of humans (voting against their own interests, or willful ignorance) will always baffle and infuriate me.

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On 22/02/2016 at 8:57 PM, JesGolbez said:

To be honest, I'm not a great debater and I always have to reign in my emotions when discussing controversial topics :P

 

I need to learn to distance myself from certain topics, although the stupidity of humans (voting against their own interests, or willful ignorance) will always baffle and infuriate me.

Don't worry we all have gotten quite emotional in our debates before, myself included, usually provides good entertainment for everyone else. ;)  I'll leave the horror stories to the others to tell, but you can't be any worse at debating than me!

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I second the feelings that none of the people running for President are worthy.  Sadly it has been that way for several elections. 

That being said if Clinton wins the Dem. election then the Rep. will win the Presidency.  

I think Trump would be the best choice, simply because he would create such a mess that it would trigger a revolt/revamp of our election system.  And until our system is revamped I don't think things will ever get better.  The House and Senate are just as bad.  They are worried more about getting re-elected and party lines than actually helping the people they represent.  I believe this is the main reason that Trump is doing so well with votes so far, people are tired of the career politicians.  You can see it in the last few House/Senate elections, so this has been building.

Also Trump at least tells you his opinion, not what the poles tell him you want to hear, unlike the rest of them or so it seems.

 

 I agree on the EU, all of the members need to either go all in or drop it.

 

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I like the way Boag thinks :)

IMO, Trump gets trounced by Bernie, but has an actual shot against Shillary. Trump's one major strength is that he isn't bought out by the big banks (Although he did try, and fail), and he can hammer that all day long. Keep pointing out who is funding Shillary's campaign, and voters will shy away from her and the establishment. People on both sides of the spectrum are sick of establishment politics and corruption, and both Bernie and Trump are the cleanest of the candidates.

I never had a chance to do a debate club in my schooling, because I went to a technical school and also a smaller high school. It would have helped, for sure, deal with sensitive topics.

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5 hours ago, Boag said:

.  

I think Trump would be the best choice, simply because he would create such a mess that it would trigger a revolt/revamp of our election system. 

Unfortunately, before it got to that, he would have hosted a gameshow titled "Press the Button", where the audience vote is linked to total global annihilation.

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6 hours ago, Boag said:

I think Trump would be the best choice, simply because he would create such a mess that it would trigger a revolt/revamp of our election system. 

 

I think he is the result of the mess that our current elected leaders have created.

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To be honest this Trump candidacy feels like a bad dream.  It's hilarious and sad all at the same time.

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