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Elovia

Mount and Blade: Warband

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36 strength and 12 levels, it is possible, but you really have to gimp a lot of things.  Can't be THAT much better.

I do like they have raised the caps though, more choices.

Edited by Jag

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It wasn't worth it, IMHO. Only like 2 pts damage better than regular. I didn't see it as a game-changer, so I don't feel too bad about passing on it. On the other hand, a set of lordly fountain guard armor will be an insta-buy. :) 

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None, so far, but I'd like to enhance the hired merc tree to include alternate cav, inf, and archer lines. I may adjust skills as part of that process. I hope adding nodes on the troop tree doesn't break the merc programming. Not sure how much behind-the-scenes customization was needed to get where it is now.

Also ... in case it matters ... I'm playing at normal difficulty.  The mod is tough, or could be with the right options.  I play without fog of war, which is semi-cheating for this mod since the maps sold at vendors are a significant feature.

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After thinking a bit, it would be easy to do what you want without building anything from scratch, I will try it when I get home, have to start a new game though. You just have to adjust the upgrade path, say make the veteran archers promote to Sharpshooter or Master, and remove the option for masters to promote to sharpshooters.  Then adjust the master stats and level to equal the sharpshooter, or whatever you want.  It will take longer for the veteran to promote, depending on the level you set them at, but you gain 6 different sets of top tier troops that can each be outfitted individually.  I adjusted them to be just able to equip those lordly armors you were talking about, but I increased the level slightly to make them take longer to get there, so it take a lot of effort to get them.  I also renamed them to Dragon Rangers, Lords, whatever instead of hired.  Very easy to do with the drop down options in the editor.

 

Starting a new guy in a game like this though can be a killer.

Edited by Jag

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Yeah, that was kind of my thought, too ... rearrange the units to end up with 6 different top end ones, while balancing/smoothing out the upgrade curves for stats, skills, and proficiencies. Fewer steps, but bigger leaps between them.

 

Edited by Elovia

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Proposed new hired merc troop tree ...

                                                                                                           |----- Skirmisher (lvl 50)

                                                                   |----- Warrior (lvl 40) ----- |

                                                                   |                                       |----- Foot Knight (lvl 50)

                             |----- Soldier (lvl 25) -----|

                             |                                     |

                             |                                     |                                        |----- Knight (lvl 50)

Recruit (lvl 10) ----|                                     |------- Rider (lvl 40) -------|

                             |                                     |                                        |----- Mounted Archer (lvl 50)

                             |                                     |

                             |----- Archer (lvl 25) -----|

                                                                   |                                       |----- Master Archer (lvl 50)

                                                                   |--- Vet. Archer (lvl 40) ---|

                                                                                                           |----- Arbelist (lvl 50)

 

Household Guards are lvl 60, by default, and they're another configurable troop to keep in mind to balance the merc tree against.

Recruit: slightly higher in level than default, but will be kept longer due to 15 lvl jump to next tier, no riding, light armor

Soldier: focus on melee and close combat, general skills across the board including throw, med armor

Archer: focus on ranged combat, general skills across the board not including throw, light armor

Warrior: more advanced soldier, intro to riding, heavy armor

Vet. Archer:  more advanced archer, intro to riding, med armor

Rider: general weapon skills all around, medium riding, med armor

Skirmisher: focus on 1h + shield, throw, pole, heavy armor

Foot Knight: focus on 1h + shield, 2h, pole, very heavy armor

Knight: high riding, very heavy armor, 1h, shield, 2h, pole, no ranged

Mounted Archer: high riding, heavy armor, 2h, ranged

Master Archer: intro riding, focus on bow, 2h, heavy armor

Arbelist: intro riding, focus on crossbow, 1h + shield, very heavy armor

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I think 40 str is required for the top armor available to those guys.  Make sure you set the base stats high enough.  And riding 9 unlocks higher level mounts as well.

Edited by Jag

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Yeah, access to gear is stat/skill dependent.

40 str? Some of the best armor I've seen requires less. I think I've seen a gothic plate that requires 27. The Fountain Guard set has better armor stats and requires only 24. I'll admit I probably haven't seen it all yet. I also haven't gone trolling through the items list either. I did, however, notice that Paladins of the Faith units are level 80. (!) They also look like some tough buggers ... based on their stats. I haven't yet one on the battlefield.

Speaking of which ... I went fishing for elf lords last night. 12 of their 16 lords are now recovering in my pris ... errr... safe and secure accommodations with ultra-modern iron decor and energy saving lighting (for their protection, of course).

 

Edited by Elovia

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So I took some time this morning and trolled through the body armors (only).  There is a small number of armors (half-dozen or less) which require 30 strength, and one armor that requires 35 (Sut giant chieftain armor) which is racial and can only be worn by giants (hence, not hired mercs).

Side note tidbit about Household Guards ... yes, while you can give them any item out of your inventory, any modifier that the item has will be removed and the item will be reverted to the base level for that item type.  So if you give them a masterwork quality weapon, it will get downgraded; if you give them a broken or cracked quality item, it will get upgraded; all items will return to "average" quality.  This is also true for mounts.  If your special mount gets lame during a combat, give it to your household guards for a bit and it will get "healed".  On the other hand, don't give them champion, heavy, or spirited mounts.

 

Edited by Elovia
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Finished editing the Hired Merc troop tree as described above.  I reconfigured the units stats, skills and proficiencies.  I also nerfed the Household Guards a tiny bit to bring them more in line with the level curve of the Hired Merc troops; really just very minor changes which shouldn't affect their performance much.

I attached an Excel spreadsheet showing the changes.  Also attached is a copy of the troops.txt file with these changes incorporated.  Be sure to back up or rename your original troop.txt file before dropping this file in the mod directory.

You won't see these changes in an existing game; you'll need to start a new one.  I think they work great, but I may be a bit biased. :)

Book1.xlsx

troops.txt

Edit to add:  this modification to the troop tree breaks the dynamic tree in the Reports menu ... only because the archer line is shoved off the bottom of the screen.  I consider this a minor annoyance.  YMMV

Edited by Elovia

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Yes, that happened to me as well, the stats seemed to stay untouched, but the names and promotions reset.  It was a quick fix.

I think I am moving on though, to this one called Nova Aetas.  It has a lot of depth and different things to do, and was recently updated.  I will miss the fantasy setting, but the depth will keep me interested longer, I think.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?board=372.0

 

After I play a bit, I will pick a faction, then edit its troop tree to be what I like.  Probably whatever the native "perisno" type that don't have a faction.

Edited by Jag

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So I started over with a brand new character, un-retouched through notepad edit magic, just to see how the new mercs would work.  Turns out they work fine.  Starting at level 10 and keeping them to level 25 does not pose a terrible burden on the player ... at least at the beginning of the game; the recruit units are decent.  Now in my game, just as soon as I exited the merc guild hall with 50+ new hires, I got ambushed by a 3rd Legion group who totally wrecked our jaunty little outing.  As I was being dragged behind a slaver's horse for a few days, I muttered to myself, "well, that was money well spent."  And then the game world went downhill from there ...

With new skill caps, units have different set of gear available to them ... expanded choices in some cases, reduced in others.  Length of time between upgrades increased across the board, so you aren't likely to quickly cap into an elite unit squad.  That said, there are fewer tiers to grind through to get to elite status.   With normal attrition, I found that I kept a mix of tier 2, 3, and 4 units ... predominately tier 3 until much later ... which I believe is the sweet spot.  Tier 1 units quickly pass on to tier 2 (but longer than before); they take even longer to advance up to tier 3, and they're glacially slow at climbing the final tier to elite status even though the level difference between tiers 3 and 4 is less than between tiers 2 and 3.  Units require more experience per level at the higher tiers.  Attrition rates tend to be inversely proportional to unit tier levels ... which is a good thing ... so you don't tend to lose as many higher tier units after spending all that time getting them there.  Success rate to getting to elite tier 4 is lower per unit ... so it balances out well, IMHO; you might lose a dozen tier 2 units for every one that makes it to tier 4 (note: I have no data to prove those numbers - just anecdotal evidence and I wasn't counting them all - but I'm sure you get the idea).

I also didn't find them to be over powered compared to their stock counterparts.  I did, just for grins, build a top shelf lvl 50 Mounted Knight with all the best gear PLUS the best bow and arrows it could use (elf bow w/ darkwood arrows, requires power draw 3, IIRC); they cost 1000 per unit per week.  Ouch.  Take away their mediocre bows and their cost is much more reasonable at 273 per unit per week.  Compared that to lvl 65 Renweards which cost 288 per unit per week.  In hindsight, I suspect I could have pumped their cost even higher had I given them top line crossbows rather than the mediocre level bow.

Around day 180, with a full suite of training companions, my warband consists of 17 Renweards (lvl 65), 36 Light Renweards (lvl 45, 125/unit/wk), 38 Mounted Knights (lvl 50), 15 Riders (lvl 40, 159/unit/wk), 14 Master Archers (lvl 50, 332/unit/wk), and 6 Veteran Archers (lvl 40, 138/unit/wk) ... the rest are 15 companions.  But I still have room to grow.  In general, the takeaway is that the hired knights may be a bit overpriced (as I have them configured) compared to other similar level stock units.  I could reconfigure my units for a lower unit price, but I have the income and enjoy their flexibility.

I was stalking the Falcon territory capturing Aepele Fealcons for indoctrination into my party, but then the evil Hakkon decided to systematically wipe out the Falcon faction by taking every castle (but one) and the main town.  The bastard elves jumped in to kick the Falcons while they were down and took one of the other castles.  Now there are no more roving bands of falcon troops to be harvested.  I am sad.  I may have to relocate to one of the Giant's lands just to see how well they work.

Edited by Elovia

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At least now you can have the motivation to build your own realm of the Falcon.  A quest as it were.  To reclaim the Falcon homelands.

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I could, but unless one of the original Falcon lords joins another realm and then defects along with other Falcon lords to recreate their realm, the Falcon culture is lost (it could happen, if allowed by this mod - I've seen it in other mods, maybe native too).  I don't have enough faction rep to rebuild it.

Edited by Elovia

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I haven't yet tried, but I recall a dev answering a question why the asking person couldn't adopt the Falcon culture; apparently there is a fairly high bar to achieving that ... something like 60+ rep with the leader, 90ish rep with the faction, and more. I can't remember off the top of my head. I think they purposely made it difficult because the units are very strong. Theydon't want the player to have easy access to those units ... which is opposite of what I want as a player. I think the player faction's Perisno troops are not that great. I could, of course, edjit and modify them to suit my needs, but I'd rather just bitch about my in-game status. :) 

 

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You could edit the 1st Perisno promotion to have a choice between the falcon recruit and the next step in Perisno troop line.

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Saw a Masterwork Darkwood Ranger Bow for sale the other day.  It required 14 Power Draw skill to use, 45 damage, 98 accuracy, 99 speed, but that amount of power draw is not possible; I tried by editing my character just to see.  10 is the max for Power Draw.  :(  

2 hours ago, Jag said:

You could edit the 1st Perisno promotion to have a choice between the falcon recruit and the next step in Perisno troop line.

Now that's thinkin' ... hadn't thought of that.

 

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It IS possible, but not by cheating!  Well, unless, you just give yourself the skill points instead of editing the skill level.  You can go to 15 on most combat oriented skills I think.  Remember to boost your strength enough to allow the skill levels.

I have officially moved on to Perisino.  Nova Aetus had to much grinding to make its building features interesting.  Sounds very cool in concept though.  I had a lot of fun last night with A clash of Kings 3.0.  It is very well done, sports a lot of the newer features, and has TONS of quests that are very well done.  I am familiar with the lore, so that makes it fun, and there is lots of uniqueness to each of the many, many factions.  The feel is very nice.  I will keep you updated.  It is a world that melds perfectly with M and B.

I am currently traveling the land hunting down enough Valerian daggers to have a Valerian weapon forged.

 

Edited by Jag

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Isn't a Clash of Kings based on Game of Thrones? If so, I'm not familiar with the background lore at all (I have not watched any GoT episodes); it would be just another re-skin of M&B to me.

I read up a little on Nova ... It did look interesting, but I'm yet to download it. Matter of fact, I really haven't played much since last week (just a few minutes here and there). Am looking forward to the weekend where I'll have a bigger chunk of time.

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A clash of kings is a name of one of the books in A Sword of Ice and Fire.  The TV show is Game of Thrones.  Good books, you should read them.

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