Lasraik

Finding Legacy play groups?

9 posts in this topic

Just about every format other than Legacy gets play at my LGS.  They have trouble getting enough people to show up and can't get it consistently enough.  Legacy is a tough sell for people who don't already play it because of the price of the cards.

Have any of you tried to get a Legacy play group going?  Either at your LGS or on your own?  I've been tossing around the idea of getting a proxy group going on my own, since I don't think game stores can do that

MirrodinTech likes this

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Perhaps my experiences and insights from doing exactly what you're proposing (Making a Legacy Playgroup) could offer some insight as you pursue this!

Here in South Florida we had a unique problem - a huge, solid group of 30-50 Legacy players (mostly competetive-focused), and a large group called South Florida Magic(SFM). They essentially would host and organize tournaments at local stores for a fee paid by the store owner, and they would be allowed to sell and promote their single-card sales at these events (I was present when a new store was approached about paying into the group).

For better or worse, the organization was felt by some to be too prohibitive to newer players based on the highly competitive nature of some the players. Moreover, strong personalities were abound, which likewise tended to ostracize newer players as well as keep current ones away (I can speak for myself and several other Legacy players in this regard - I can play at a high level, but at a local event I just want to play without judge calls every 5 min.)  Ultimately, for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me (but based on my observations probably include dropout of attendance at events, less stores buying in, becoming too "cliquey," etc.) the three owners split up their ownership of the group. They have not organized events, or maintained a commercial venture at the same level as before. 

I don't mention this to speak ill of them - in fact, some of their former players have become quite good friends of mine. Rather, that even a large, organized, and passionate base can become unraveled. Thus, I sought to focus on what may have contributed to this ultimate downfall (at the very least, considering what kept me largely away,) and create a group that tried to avoid repeating mistakes, or at least anticipating possible hurdles. 

Thus, I founded the Mirrodin Institute of Technology as a community that helped organize Legacy and non-rotating Magic tournaments at local game stores. I approached it the following ways:

1) In contrast to SFM, I decided there would NO commercialization. That is, NO fees for hosting events, NO selling cards, NO money exchanging hands between MirrodinTech and any store as a pre-requisite for our services. SFM was a business, and we are not. It was designed to run entirely on volunteer support without the need for money. That way, the organization would not disappear if certain financial "quotas" were not met.

2) Focus on positivity and collegiality, not competitiveness. I always find it amusing when people treat local non-competitive events as if they were on the pro tour. This stifles deck creativity (i.e, you feel you have to play the "top decks,") and is really unwelcoming to new people coming into the format. This is a place to develop players, not scare them away. Sure, occasional competitive REL events are needed to keep the play high-level for top players, but these should not be the bread and butter. As a corollary, the focus should be just as much to improve current players, as to develop new players through a welcoming and informative experience.

3) Multiple locations in the US: I have not only established a system for MirrodinTech co-hosting and organizing events here in South Florida, but in South Texas as well. This way, the playgroup and philosophy aren't tied to one location where if I move away it would disappear or lose its ability to organize.

4) Allow Proxies: This should be made an option, and decided upon by the local players. Alternating proxy and non-proxy events should also be made an option, for those players who truly want a competitive experience, while not alienating new players that are interested but still working on trading up. 

5) Stream events online. Creates motivation for making sure events are run, creates a presence and recognized name, and is not tied to a particular location. Offering this at a store is essentially free publicity for them, and we get our name and Legacy out there. 

6) TOA EE Series: http://eemagic.com The Tales of Adventure Eternal Extravaganza Legacy Satellite Series allows FREE participation for stores. They allow events to have proxies, the have a national leaderboard, and you can earn byes for their yearly national Eternal Extravaganza tournament. Our main Legacy location at this time has joined with us and TOA to add legitimacy and incentive to events. 

 

So far, our community is growing. We don't make membership or nonmembership an issue, and are trying to avoid clique mentality. However, the skepticism of many players of the previous playgroup has impeded faster or greater growth. Nevertheless, with a core group of 15-20 guys, and NEW Legacy players every weekend, we will grow and show that this game and format is beyond a single group, entity, playstyle, or name.

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

rainman and Lasraik like this

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Getting regular Legacy play here in England is hard, the nearest reliable weekly and monthly events to me as in London so would take a couple of hours to get to. A few months ago some people tried to get a weekly Legacy event going he in Southampton but attendance quickly fell off, hopefully the second attempt which starts next week will last longer

Lasraik likes this

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:40 AM, MirrodinTech said:

1) In contrast to SFM, I decided there would NO commercialization. That is, NO fees for hosting events, NO selling cards, NO money exchanging hands between MirrodinTech and any store as a pre-requisite for our services. SFM was a business, and we are not. It was designed to run entirely on volunteer support without the need for money. That way, the organization would not disappear if certain financial "quotas" were not met.

2) Focus on positivity and collegiality, not competitiveness. I always find it amusing when people treat local non-competitive events as if they were on the pro tour. This stifles deck creativity (i.e, you feel you have to play the "top decks,") and is really unwelcoming to new people coming into the format. This is a place to develop players, not scare them away. Sure, occasional competitive REL events are needed to keep the play high-level for top players, but these should not be the bread and butter. As a corollary, the focus should be just as much to improve current players, as to develop new players through a welcoming and informative experience.

3) Multiple locations in the US: I have not only established a system for MirrodinTech co-hosting and organizing events here in South Florida, but in South Texas as well. This way, the playgroup and philosophy aren't tied to one location where if I move away it would disappear or lose its ability to organize.

4) Allow Proxies: This should be made an option, and decided upon by the local players. Alternating proxy and non-proxy events should also be made an option, for those players who truly want a competitive experience, while not alienating new players that are interested but still working on trading up. 

5) Stream events online. Creates motivation for making sure events are run, creates a presence and recognized name, and is not tied to a particular location. Offering this at a store is essentially free publicity for them, and we get our name and Legacy out there. 

6) TOA EE Series: http://eemagic.com The Tales of Adventure Eternal Extravaganza Legacy Satellite Series allows FREE participation for stores. They allow events to have proxies, the have a national leaderboard, and you can earn byes for their yearly national Eternal Extravaganza tournament. Our main Legacy location at this time has joined with us and TOA to add legitimacy and incentive to events. 

Is allowing proxies generally frowned upon?

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On 11/28/2017 at 2:43 PM, Molimo said:

If someone who prints their own deck beats another player with a legit, foiled out copy of a tier 1 legacy deck, would it feel right that both players paid the same entry to the tournament?

But is that legit, foiled out tier 1 legacy deck of any use if there's nobody to play against, no tournament to play in? Of course, the individual cards have financial value regardless, but the whole point of having a legacy deck is to play legacy

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41 minutes ago, rainman said:

But is that legit, foiled out tier 1 legacy deck of any use if there's nobody to play against, no tournament to play in? Of course, the individual cards have financial value regardless, but the whole point of having a legacy deck is to play legacy

WARNING: I am a lover of analogies to a fault.

To begin, all are fair points.

Some might argue that a victory with an all-proxy deck is inherently disingenuous. e.g., I am loaned a knockoff Ferrari that performs as well as a real one for a weekend, and then win a race. Did I really win if that car was never mine, or genuine? Is this victory less meaningful than the victory of someone who put together a kit-based car made from authentic Shelby/NISMO/DINAN/whatever performance parts, but is not as fast or high-performing as the knockoff Ferrari? 

Others would say that a skilled pilot is still needed to win, and a knockoff Ferrari (no matter how fast) doesn't win a race by itself. They may also say that a skilled driver/pilot would never have the chance to showcase their full talents without this unique opportunity with the knock-off.

Yet others would say the grind of building up from cheaper to better authentic cars is part of the necessary experience to meaningfully learn and obtain "true" victories. By leapfrogging this process while others went through it, some may argue the victory was not as "earned." 

Still, others would say that using loaned, knockoff exotic cars that perform exactly as their authentic counterparts is the only way of knowing if your optimal car for your driving style is a Lamborghini, or a Ferrari, or a Bugatti, etc.

And still, others will show up and win with their authentic souped up 1990s Mustang 5.0.

Whenever there's good arguments for both sides, I think bilateral appeasement is favorable. Have BOTH proxy and non-proxy events.

Proxy events to allow people to experiment in tournament environments before committing to costly cards (e.g., when I was bring BRw Stasis with two Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale.)

Non-proxy events allow for only players who've made serious financial commitments to their decks, and thus oftentimes more serious commitment to high-level gameplay (plus, these would serve as preparation for GPs, SCIs, etc.)

~~~EDIT:

Take for example the case of my Grixis Delver deck. Before I had enough duals, I used some shocks (or proxied them if allowed.) I'm glad I have the final build, but it was NOT cheap, and took several months of holding some money back from my paycheck/waiting for a good deal to come up.

 

legacydelver.PNG

rainman likes this

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I play in a monthly legacy tournament which allows unlimited numbers of proxies, the successful running of which is dependent on the fact that it is accessible for players who don't have the cash to invest in a legacy deck. In @MirrodinTech's analogy, my real Ferrari would just be sitting in my garage if I insisted I could only race it against other real Ferraris

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1 minute ago, rainman said:

I play in a monthly legacy tournament which allows unlimited numbers of proxies, the successful running of which is dependent on the fact that it is accessible for players who don't have the cash to invest in a legacy deck. In @MirrodinTech's analogy, my real Ferrari would just be sitting in my garage if I insisted I could only race it against other real Ferraris

Exactly. Most of us (I presume) want to go out racing, regardless of what others are driving, or if they're knockoffs, especially if they bring more people to race and raise interest in investing and participating in racing. 

This problem is further escalated in Vintage. I have a Vintage deck that's a variant of one I used to run back in the 90s, but with proxy Power 9 (but authentic everything else). Other people who've seen it play think it's tons of fun, and want to proxy up their own Vintage decks and have a tournament. Sadly, of the 4-5 established Vintage lovers in town with fully-built non-proxy decks, only 1 would participate in anything that allowed proxies. They claim any environment that allows proxies won't be restricted to the people who have invested in (and thus appreciate the unique and special nature of) authentic Power 9+. And, since they refuse to play with proxy cards themselves (which ironically would ameliorate their concerns, and allow them to play the format they love,) Vintage never happens in South Florida. 

So, even though there's the presence of Vintage lovers with authentic decks, that attitude actually killed it completely. 

In contrast, in my part of Texas (where I also host events; less frequenty), no one owns any pieces of power. Yet, we've succesfully run events with 15 proxies allowed, including shockland-using Oath of Druids builds, an insane vintage Bant spirits, and more. 

So, attitude is everything, and inclusivity and non-elitism generally are ideal. But elitism can be appeased with occasional no-proxy tournaments too. If they fire :P 

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