nico0

Is there a way to remove emblems?

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So my friend recently scored a Gideon of the Trials and his ultimate concerns me, considering he's only got a converted mana cost of 3. I've heard of some cards that counter activated abilities like Sqelch  but I've searched my entire collection and found no cards with similar effects. Is there any way to counter the instant emblem or do I just have to beat him before he plays Gideon?

Lasraik likes this

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There are no ways to remove emblems as far as I know other than using something like Karn Liberateds ability to restart the game.

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Its tough since emblems arent permenants and arent on the battlefield. 

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Yeah, emblems are kind of obnixous.  There is no way to interact with them, and if WOTC starts printing cards that can destroy them then there is basically no reason for them not to just be enchantments. I wish they had just been "enchantment tokens" from the start, but then they wouldn't be as overpowered as WOTC wants them to be. *Shrug*

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On 30/09/2017 at 9:23 AM, nico0 said:

So my friend recently scored a Gideon of the Trials and his ultimate concerns me, considering he's only got a converted mana cost of 3. I've heard of some cards that counter activated abilities like Sqelch  but I've searched my entire collection and found no cards with similar effects. Is there any way to counter the instant emblem or do I just have to beat him before he plays Gideon?

To be fair Nico, you just have to remove the Gideon Planeswalkers themselves. If they don’t control a Gideon then the emblem doesn’t help them. 

Restarting the game with Karn (as above) is another way of getting rid of the effect though.

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6 hours ago, GenericBadMagic said:

To be fair Nico, you just have to remove the Gideon Planeswalkers themselves. If they don’t control a Gideon then the emblem doesn’t help them. 

Restarting the game with Karn (as above) is another way of getting rid of the effect though.

Removing Gideon is probably the best route.  You'd think by now they would have a way to remove emblems though...

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14 hours ago, Lasraik said:

Removing Gideon is probably the best route.  You'd think by now they would have a way to remove emblems though...

Allowing emblems to be removed defeats the initial purpose of them sadly. If anything they’ll just stop making them so they rotate out and never see the light of standard again.

As it is I like emblems, for most Planeswalkers the Loyalty represents a threat to play around unless you can handle an emblem being dropped against you. It’s all just problem solving.

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I like emblems. I don't think it makes sense to talk about them being OP - makes as much sense as saying something like 'creatures are OP'. You have to evaluate them in the context of how much effort they require and how disruptible they are. Changing the fundamental baseline of the game to give yourself an advantage is a pretty interesting mechanic, and adding emblem removal would make that impossible.

If your opponent ticks their Lili up to 7, and survives a whole 'nother turn, you don't really deserve to win that game imo. There are about a million ways you can stop the emblem without needing removal for it.

In the Gideon case, you're maybe misidentifying the cause of the loss as the Emblem, rather than your opponent controlling a Gideon for the entire game.

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My issue with emblems, and this applies to planeswalkers in general, is that if 1 person is playing planeswalkers and another isn't, the person who isn't has to dedicate so many resources to dealing with a planeswalker that more often than not they are simply "I win" cards.  Yes, naturally, you can deal with them, it's an element of the game, but it's more of a balance issue.  They tend to tip the scales in extremely exorbitant ways, which is only emphasized by the fact that they are expensive in the financial sense, which gives the whole game a pay-to-win feeling when it comes to planeswalker cards. 

 

And remember, Gideon of the Trials can put down an un-intereactive emblem the turn it comes into play.  There is no work involved. It's a 1WW card that puts an emblem into play that you have no control over, and that fundamentally puts you at a distinct and impossible-to-change disadvantage for the rest of the game.

 

The thing that keeps MTG great is how balanced it is.  If something is powerful, it's either hard to cast or vulnerable to removal, and it doesn't matter if someone pays hundreds on a deck or are playing with budget bulk, a Victim of Night can still kill a Tarmogoyf regardless of what the players paid for them.  I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining about the price of cards, or a casual player who hates tier 1 cards/decks. I'm a budget brewer through-and-through and I'm totally okay with netdecking and competitive play, I've never been one to complain about that.  With that said, I've always felt that Planeswalker cards were too swingy, and that's a problem that has continued to get worse and worse with time.  They've gotten increasingly powerful and expensive (monetarily) and the game just feels increasingly imbalanced because of that.

 

Fortunately, on the bright side, if you are a budget player playing against other budget players then you probably don't see them that often anyway. Likewise, if you are a competitive player then you probably have planeswalkers of your own.  I guess what it really does is widen the gap between those two groups, and that gap feels wider than it ever has in the past, which in turn means less and less people may be willing to make the leap to the next level of play.

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9 minutes ago, Affinity for MTG said:

My issue with emblems, and this applies to planeswalkers in general, is that if 1 person is playing planeswalkers and another isn't, the person who isn't has to dedicate so many resources to dealing with a planeswalker that more often than not they are simply "I win" cards.  Yes, naturally, you can deal with them, it's an element of the game, but it's more of a balance issue.  They tend to tip the scales in extremely exorbitant ways, which is only emphasized by the fact that they are expensive in the financial sense, which gives the whole game a pay-to-win feeling when it comes to planeswalker cards. 

 

And remember, Gideon of the Trials can put down an un-intereactive emblem the turn it comes into play.  There is no work involved. It's a 1WW card that puts an emblem into play that you have no control over, and that fundamentally puts you at a distinct and impossible-to-change disadvantage for the rest of the game.

 

The thing that keeps MTG great is how balanced it is.  If something is powerful, it's either hard to cast or vulnerable to removal, and it doesn't matter if someone pays hundreds on a deck or are playing with budget bulk, a Victim of Night can still kill a Tarmogoyf regardless of what the players paid for them.  I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining about the price of cards, or a casual player who hates tier 1 cards/decks. I'm a budget brewer through-and-through and I'm totally okay with netdecking and competitive play, I've never been one to complain about that.  With that said, I've always felt that Planeswalker cards were too swingy, and that's a problem that has continued to get worse and worse with time.  They've gotten increasingly powerful and expensive (monetarily) and the game just feels increasingly imbalanced because of that.

 

Fortunately, on the bright side, if you are a budget player playing against other budget players then you probably don't see them that often anyway. Likewise, if you are a competitive player then you probably have planeswalkers of your own.  I guess what it really does is widen the gap between those two groups, and that gap feels wider than it ever has in the past, which in turn means less and less people may be willing to make the leap to the next level of play.

This, in a nutshell, is why I really don't like the Planeswalker card type at all.

The only 'saving' grace is that many new Planeswalkers aren't as powerful as the older ones... Compare more recent ones to Elspeth (original or remake), JTMS, etc...

 

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4 hours ago, JesGolbez said:

This, in a nutshell, is why I really don't like the Planeswalker card type at all.

The only 'saving' grace is that many new Planeswalkers aren't as powerful as the older ones... Compare more recent ones to Elspeth (original or remake), JTMS, etc...

 

I think that was a change Wizards made to fundamentally downgrade Planeswalkers because of cards like JTMS specifically to not warp Standard

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I really don't think Gideon is that obnoxious.  I play him in my Modern deck, and more often than not I don't even bother embleming, because if I'm losing, he is so easy to kill, and if I'm winning, I don't need the emblem.  I can't think of one time when the emblem has saved me the game.  Some other planeswalkers' emblems are worse, and are designed to be win conditions.  I do wish some planeswalkers weren't game ending- I prefer the incremental advantage engines like Saheeli or Samut. 

I think Mark Rosewater has said before that the point of emblems are that you can't interact with them.  Think of it like this:  emblems are to enchantments what the exile zone is to the graveyard.  It's added design space in the game that gives them a way to essentially print enchantments that can't be removed.

-Paul

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