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JesGolbez

Accounting the Pioneer Format

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Well, it's a better idea than Brawl...

I guess more formats is a good thing, but not my thing. Hard enough for me to build Modern. I don't have the cards to build any kind of functional Standard deck, and I'm gonna bet this new one will be the same.

They should have added the Commander sets, just to give it enough uniqueness and not seem quite so much like the "half-way between Modern and Standard" format that it actually is.

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So, it's Frontier basically?  I'm not a fan of so many formats, it waters down the existing formats and almost prevents them from reprinting cards later that people are avoiding by going to the new format (fetches). 

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What was Frontier?  Missed that one.

I just flipped through my Dragon Tempest deck (that I can't get to work in Modern), wondering if it wouldn't work here. Been thinking of posting that deck here and seeing what you guys think.

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18 hours ago, Oktayne the Red said:

What was Frontier?  Missed that one.

I just flipped through my Dragon Tempest deck (that I can't get to work in Modern), wondering if it wouldn't work here. Been thinking of posting that deck here and seeing what you guys think.

Frontier was an unofficial format that was from Magic Origins on.  It was popular for a while but kind of faded away.  People were asking Wizards to make it official, but they never really acknowledged it (from what I remember).  It's a little funny that they create their own format so similar to it now that it's been two or three years since the popularity of Frontier was at it's peak.

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Pioneer seems degenerate with no real banlist... going to be a LOT of combo decks early on. Will see when WOTC decided to prune the list down

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4 hours ago, Lasraik said:

Frontier was an unofficial format that was from Magic Origins on.  It was popular for a while but kind of faded away.  People were asking Wizards to make it official, but they never really acknowledged it (from what I remember).  It's a little funny that they create their own format so similar to it now that it's been two or three years since the popularity of Frontier was at it's peak.

and it was basically created by Japanese store(s) to get rid of old post-standard stock... 

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I'm pretty excited for this. Maybe it's because I enjoy brewing so much, so a whole new format with all new possibilities for decks sounds like bliss to me. The format will definitely be way cheaper than modern, remember that Return to Ravnica was the point where WOTC started "over-printing" sets. I hear investors complaining about the "Return to Ravnica" era all the time because the market is so saturated with how much of the stuff they printed. This SHOULD help keep costs down.

The most expensive card in the format the moment (not counting overpriced Standard cards) is Ugin at $40, but after that it's Liliana the Last Hope and Monastery Mentor at around $20 each. That's pretty light compared to the $120+ cards in Modern. Plus manabases will be MUCH cheaper, since the best lands are going to be things like Shocks, Kaladesh Fastlands, and Checklands.

I, personally, can't wait to start brewing decks in the format. It's definitely exciting for someone like me! :D

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2 minutes ago, JesGolbez said:

Pioneer seems degenerate with no real banlist... going to be a LOT of combo decks early on. Will see when WOTC decided to prune the list down

Yeah, I think that's why they're running it on MTGO initially. MTGO players are going to break the format hard, and then WOTC will use the data to form a ban list for when it premiers in paper.

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3 hours ago, Affinity for MTG said:

I'm pretty excited for this. Maybe it's because I enjoy brewing so much, so a whole new format with all new possibilities for decks sounds like bliss to me. The format will definitely be way cheaper than modern, remember that Return to Ravnica was the point where WOTC started "over-printing" sets. I hear investors complaining about the "Return to Ravnica" era all the time because the market is so saturated with how much of the stuff they printed. This SHOULD help keep costs down.

The most expensive card in the format the moment (not counting overpriced Standard cards) is Ugin at $40, but after that it's Liliana the Last Hope and Monastery Mentor at around $20 each. That's pretty light compared to the $120+ cards in Modern. Plus manabases will be MUCH cheaper, since the best lands are going to be things like Shocks, Kaladesh Fastlands, and Checklands.

I, personally, can't wait to start brewing decks in the format. It's definitely exciting for someone like me! :D

That's very true about RTR era cards, the costs are low.

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So far it looks like the format is going well There is definitely some broken stuff that needs to be banned, but I really don't think this is going to be a flash-in-the-pan format. I can definitely see this replacing modern as the best non-rotating format.

Not that it will fully replace modern, of course, but at this point I can see Modern becoming more like Legacy where it TECHNICALLY exists but isn't nearly as popular as pioneer.

Unfortunately the format isn't as cheap as I hoped, a lot of cards are being bought out and the prices are going up. I think it's still too early to tell though and we should probably give it a few weeks to see where the prices ultimately settle at. Right now I think we're just dealing with lots of hype and too many people are speculating and buying out cards that aren't even that competitive in the format.

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Yup, stick with mono-red if you want a cheaper deck :) Or maybe mono-black variants.

If I was playing competitive, I'd give it a go. 

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On the flip side this is sad for casual players who are hoping the get cards cheaper when they rotate out of standard 😭

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On 10/29/2019 at 4:38 PM, Aurian said:

On the flip side this is sad for casual players who are hoping the get cards cheaper when they rotate out of standard 😭


Yeah, this is something I'm struggling with. A lot of the good budget cards for Modern are no longer budget-friendly. I'm hoping it's just the hype causes the prices to spike and that they'll come down, but I'm betting Paper hasn't even seen the worst of it yet. I bet it spikes again when paper tournaments get underway and REAL demand starts to rise.

Here are some of the modern decks I've played on my channel, comparing the price of the deck when I played it compared to what it is right now. It's pretty crazy.

4-Color Zombies
Then: 9.31 tix
Now: 24.86 tix

Frenzied Affinty
Then: 12.43 tix
Now: 18.66 tix

Budget Eldrazi and Taxes:
Then: 13.88 tix
Now: 34.24 tix

Blast Affinity:
Then: 8.43 tix
Now: 14.00 tix

So yeah, I'm hoping it settles down a bit. If not, this new demand for Pioneer cards means budget decks in Modern are going to either be much more expensive or much less powerful.

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WOTC announced on Twitter that bans for Pioneer will be happening every Monday. We knew there were going to off-cycle bans, but it looks like it's going to be weekly. Honestly, the format feel pretty stable at the moment, I don't know if any bans are even necessary right now, but it might be because everyone is brewing their own decks. I'm sure once the metagame starts to settle we'll see what actually needs to be banned.

The only thing that comes to mind at the moment is the Copy Cat combo with Saheeli and Felidar Guardian. That's just as obnoxious now as it was in Standard, and of course Oko and Teferi are pretty dominant - like they are in pretty much every format under the sun. We'll see if they get the axe right away or if the Pioneer metagame is strong enough to compete with that nonsense. :rolleyes:

 

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Banning part of the Copy Cat deck is going to have an impact on card prices for sure.

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Another week, another ban. This time Veil of Summer took the hit. It's been extremely powerful since it was printed, being a 1-mana counterspell of sorts that also draws a card if it's "countering" a blue/black spell, making it one of the most powerful "counterspells" in the game. In Green...
 

Full article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/november-11-2019-pioneer-banned-announcement

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Another round of bans yesterday. This time Once Upon a Time, Field of the Dead, and Smuggler's Copter got the axe. Once Upon a Time is starting to feel like Treasure Cruise, it seems like it's going to get banned in every format ever. Field of the Dead has also proven to be obnoxious, now having been banned in both Standard and Pioneer and Copter was getting downright toxic. Literally any deck that played creatures ran Smuggler's Copter, because it was one of the best creatures in the format and the fact that's it's an artifact meant every deck could play it.

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Full article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/december-2-2019-pioneer-banned-announcement

Full banlist to date:
Felidar Guardian
Field of the Dead
Leyline of Abundance
Oath of Nissa
Once Upon a Time
Smuggler’s Copter
Veil of Summer
+Fetch lands

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All very good bans. 

 

Copter - not enough good removal in Pioneer, it makes decks too similar, and gives card selection to decks that don't normally get it. 

Once Upon a Time - Should be banned in every competitive format, to be honest. 

Field of the Dead - Don't know about this one, but it seems to be too hard to deal with without real land destruction.

 

What would be on a watch list now? Probably Nexus of Fate (unfun?), Nykthos (too rampy/strong?), Oko (because....Oko)

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5 hours ago, JesGolbez said:

What would be on a watch list now? Probably Nexus of Fate (unfun?), Nykthos (too rampy/strong?), Oko (because....Oko)


I guess we'll have to see how the metagame adjusts. Unfortunately I haven't had time to play/watch the format since the last ban, but taking a quick look at MTGgoldfish's metagame page it looks like Teferi and Nexus of Fate decks are starting to claim the top spot. Like I said, I haven't been playing, but it certainly LOOKS miserable. XD

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